I grew up in the church, and spent a long time leaving. I'm still on the records, but haven't attended in 3 or 4 years, and don't consider myself to be LDS anymore. I always defended the idea that the LDS church is Christian, but I never really felt like I understood Christ. I never felt like I got a good explanation for exactly what the atonement does, or how one actually uses it in practice. It always felt to me like the atonement was almost like an insurance policy. You do your best to fulfill the requirements of the law, then when you inevitably fall short you follow the prescribed repentance process, and as long as you've maintained your membership, then at the final judgement the atonement will cover your lapses. Certainly something to be grateful for, but not really something that affects your day to day. So when I left the church, I didn't have any particularly strong feelings about Christ. I wasn't trying to connect to him, nor was I especially avoiding him.
I started meditating regularly, and often when I meditated I would experience a sort of dialog with a voice, I would ask questions, and the voice would provide answers and explanation. One day I don't remember what I had asked about, but it was explaining some things, and it started to sound like the atonement. So I asked if that's what it was, and I was told yes, and I had an experience that felt a lot like what Alma the younger experienced. It was really weird, I felt all the pain I had experienced or caused, and it really hurt, but there was no suffering, only acceptance, love and joy. It left me with this deep desire to be better, and to be patient and loving towards other people. I've had similar experiences a couple more times since, and they've really shifted my thinking about Christ. After I left the church, I didn't claim to be a Christian, but now, whatever else I am, I definitely feel that Christ is an important part of my theological beliefs.
It's also shifted my thinking about the church's status as a 'Christian' church. The church certainly talks about Christ a lot, but they really don't seem to know him. I don't begrudge anyone in the church their right to claim to be Christian, but at the same time, I think people outside the church have a fair point. It seems to me there's more to being Christian than holding all the correct propositional beliefs, and I hate to make judgements about other people's experiences, but it feels to me like the average church member doesn't really understand Christ as much more than an important historical figure.
I've believed for a while that there have been periods in the history of the LDS church in which the leadership has emphasized that Mormonism is not the same thing as Christianity, at least as the rest of the world practices it. Reading this made me realize that maybe I'm entirely wrong about this! Ross (or anyone else knowledgable here), could you set me straight?
"not the same thing as Christianity" could go a lot of different ways.
1- We definitely emphasize differences in doctrine especially when we thing our doctrinally understanding is better, or if we think people will find our doctrine more attractive. You have things like eternal marriage, baptism for the dead, the lack of Hell.
2- Difference as a topic for it's own sake feels rarer (to me) but traditionally we have taken pride in considering ourselves a "peculiar people", and of course there's the whole discourse about being "the only true church" and the "restored church" while the rest of Christianity is part of the "great apostasy". But that has always read to me as "Christianity, but better and more accurate". Certainly you could accuse us of arrogance on this front, and even separation, but I think the goal was always to draw closer to Christianity, to purify it, not draw away.
3- Emphasis on the fact that our Christianity is not Nicene Christianity is not something I've seen very often, certainly not at the level of the average member, and not in official pronouncements either.
4- I would categorically deny any _emphasis_ on "Not the same thing as Christianity" in it's strongest form. I admit that the further caveat "at least as the rest of the world practices it" is doing a lot of lifting there, but my initial reaction to your statement was, "What?"
Perhaps if you could point to an example of the kind of thing you're talking about that would help clarify the matter.
I grew up in the church, and spent a long time leaving. I'm still on the records, but haven't attended in 3 or 4 years, and don't consider myself to be LDS anymore. I always defended the idea that the LDS church is Christian, but I never really felt like I understood Christ. I never felt like I got a good explanation for exactly what the atonement does, or how one actually uses it in practice. It always felt to me like the atonement was almost like an insurance policy. You do your best to fulfill the requirements of the law, then when you inevitably fall short you follow the prescribed repentance process, and as long as you've maintained your membership, then at the final judgement the atonement will cover your lapses. Certainly something to be grateful for, but not really something that affects your day to day. So when I left the church, I didn't have any particularly strong feelings about Christ. I wasn't trying to connect to him, nor was I especially avoiding him.
I started meditating regularly, and often when I meditated I would experience a sort of dialog with a voice, I would ask questions, and the voice would provide answers and explanation. One day I don't remember what I had asked about, but it was explaining some things, and it started to sound like the atonement. So I asked if that's what it was, and I was told yes, and I had an experience that felt a lot like what Alma the younger experienced. It was really weird, I felt all the pain I had experienced or caused, and it really hurt, but there was no suffering, only acceptance, love and joy. It left me with this deep desire to be better, and to be patient and loving towards other people. I've had similar experiences a couple more times since, and they've really shifted my thinking about Christ. After I left the church, I didn't claim to be a Christian, but now, whatever else I am, I definitely feel that Christ is an important part of my theological beliefs.
It's also shifted my thinking about the church's status as a 'Christian' church. The church certainly talks about Christ a lot, but they really don't seem to know him. I don't begrudge anyone in the church their right to claim to be Christian, but at the same time, I think people outside the church have a fair point. It seems to me there's more to being Christian than holding all the correct propositional beliefs, and I hate to make judgements about other people's experiences, but it feels to me like the average church member doesn't really understand Christ as much more than an important historical figure.
I've believed for a while that there have been periods in the history of the LDS church in which the leadership has emphasized that Mormonism is not the same thing as Christianity, at least as the rest of the world practices it. Reading this made me realize that maybe I'm entirely wrong about this! Ross (or anyone else knowledgable here), could you set me straight?
"not the same thing as Christianity" could go a lot of different ways.
1- We definitely emphasize differences in doctrine especially when we thing our doctrinally understanding is better, or if we think people will find our doctrine more attractive. You have things like eternal marriage, baptism for the dead, the lack of Hell.
2- Difference as a topic for it's own sake feels rarer (to me) but traditionally we have taken pride in considering ourselves a "peculiar people", and of course there's the whole discourse about being "the only true church" and the "restored church" while the rest of Christianity is part of the "great apostasy". But that has always read to me as "Christianity, but better and more accurate". Certainly you could accuse us of arrogance on this front, and even separation, but I think the goal was always to draw closer to Christianity, to purify it, not draw away.
3- Emphasis on the fact that our Christianity is not Nicene Christianity is not something I've seen very often, certainly not at the level of the average member, and not in official pronouncements either.
4- I would categorically deny any _emphasis_ on "Not the same thing as Christianity" in it's strongest form. I admit that the further caveat "at least as the rest of the world practices it" is doing a lot of lifting there, but my initial reaction to your statement was, "What?"
Perhaps if you could point to an example of the kind of thing you're talking about that would help clarify the matter.